October 1987, I recorded a conversation I had with Owen Pollard. I called him only one time and he told me that he felt sympathy for me and he wished there was something he could do to help me.  Lee: Well, the reason that I’m calling now, my name is Lee Cochran. Owen: Mm-mm. Lee: And Mr. Pollard, I would like to ask you a question. Owen: Sure. Lee: Right shortly after the fire back in February 18, 1981… Owen: What fire? Lee: That’s when Michael Cochran died in a fire in that camp down in Dedham. Owen: Oh, okay. Lee: Shortly after that fire Paul ... I’ve talked to Paul on the telephone out in Virginia. And he tells me that he called you. He went out to Rhode Island ... And after he got out there on the 20th (this is wrong, I subsequently learned it was after the 24th) and he called you back and told you that a cabin had burned and a man had died in it and he was scared and he came home and went into Waterville to speak to an attorney and Detective Shuman met him there. He tells me that he told the police everything that happened. The thing that I wanted to ask you Mr. Pollard, could you tell me when he came back and told about Lionel Cormier and what happened would you have any idea why the police would not listen to what he had to say. Owen: You know when that all happened that I was in California and I remember it happening but I don’t remember those details you describe. Lee: “Well, you were in Readfield at the time that this happened because—-“ Owen: “Yeah, but when that particular thing happened I was out in California. I was on vacation and you know, I know that’s an awful thing for you to have to go through but I really—” Lee: “Then in his February 12, 1985 statement he says that he called you and you told him to come home and that you and he would take care of it.” Owen: “I can remember when this all, I remember that he called when he called and told me what had happened, that I was in California. And then I, and I don’t, what I probably told him was that when I came home we would talk about it. But I, you know, I really, and I’m not trying to be evasive. I really don’t remember many of the details after that. You know yourself the character Lionel was. [Wait until he came home to talk about a man being murdered and left lying under a pile of burned rubble.]   Lee: “Yes, I know ... The last time I spoke with Paul has been probably three months ago and he says that they need to give Lionel a polygraph test and I said Paul, you know that Lionel got twenty-three years in prison for robbery but that’s not enough.” Owen: “Well, they didn’t punish him if he did that to your son that certainly isn’t enough.” Lee: “Well, that’s true, but the thing is for some unknown reason the police keep blocking no matter what I get for information and I’m confused about that.” Owen: “I know. It’s an awful thing for you to have to go through.” Lee: Well, it’s going on seven years and it’s my life’s purpose right now, is to find out what became of my son and I want the man who shot him down there that night.” Owen: “Yeah, well I certainly understand that.” Lee: “And Paul has told me ... that they need to look at Lionel.” Owen: “Well they know where to find him.” Lee: “Well, they certainly do and [Paul] said, “I told them everything. It was up to them to do what they wanted.” Owen: “I’m sure he told them everything and I remember he did have a polygraph test. Paul did ... And I don’t know why in the world they never would give Lionel one if [inaudible]” Lee: Well, they keep saying he refuses to take one, but you know if someone will come forward and talk against someone, why just say we can’t do anything because he won’t take a polygraph? Owen: I know, it doesn’t make much sense. I’m sure as far as I know Paul told them absolutely everything. That’s what I told him, you know, that’s what I certainly advised him that he had to do. Lee: Right. Well, that’s what he tells me. You see when they got him to talk on those robberies ... Well at that time, he tells me, he said, even right then at that time in ’85 he said again, he said, I told them everything. Owen: What they do, they get into, I’m no lawyer but I, in those thing like with Lionel they do all this plea bargaining and stuff and so, you know, it could have well been that he was bargained with on the twenty-three years and they’re going to dismiss something else. I know those things happen. Lee: But I would think that a murder would come before an indictment on robberies. Owen: Well, I would agree with you. I’m sure you just absolutely don’t feel justice has ever been done. ... I do know this; I know that Lionel has absolutely no conscience. And I know Paul does and I know Paul. I know every parent thinks it, but I really know Paul is incapable of taking anybody’s life. He wouldn’t shoot a bird. Lee: No, you know the only thing, the reason that Paul’s name gets in this so much, he was seen running from the cabin that night. Owen: Yeah, yeah, and I’m sure he was frightened because he nearly burned himself. And when you think of that you can absolutely see that he was having no loyalty to Lionel because whoever did it was gonna let him burn up to death. Lee: Yes. Owen: It's just that it’s an awful, awful thing and I’ve thought about you, you know, and what you must be going through.” Lee: Yes, well it’s been an awful thing. I never knew the truth. I wonder what that noise is. Owen: It’s somebody, I have one of those interrupt things on my line. If you can hold just a second and I’ll tell them to call later. Lee: …Paul, like we said, was seen running from the cabin that night and like you said he could have lost his life that night too. Well that was the hard thing for me to understand though, how Lionel could go to that cabin and set a fire and he had to have known Paul was there. Owen: Yeah, he would have done it. He would have done it. He would have killed Paul. He is, you know, at times he’s threatened Paul. Paul has been in fear of his own life from Lionel until he was put away. I can tell you that as a parent. Lee: Well, it’s like I told Paul, I said twenty-three years is not enough. Owen: …You’re absolutely right, twenty-three years, that fellow should never be out. Lee: That’s right. Owen: And twenty-three years from now Paul’s life will be in danger. Lee: …I just wanted to talk to you cause I have, when Pollard came back from Rhode Island I kind of, I had surmised that that was before Michael was even found. Owen: …I think when he called though, when he went to Rhode Island now I really think that he had, by the time at least Paul had talked with me, it seems to me that it was known that somebody had burned in the house. Lee: Well, I think it was known. Lionel had told it down to Sargent’s on the 18th ... He called you and he said there was a fire and a man died and he was scared and you said “Come home and we’ll take care of it”. Owen: I remember that. I was visiting, I remember I was visiting my sister in California and my brother is a Superior Court Judge and I remember of relating the things to him and he was saying the thing that Paul should do. Lee: Sure. Owen: Which obviously I wanted him to do, you know. ...you know, there is no explaining all these things because there is so much none of us know goes on in the legal system. And there’s all this, you know, lawyers that get together and they make deals. Lee: Yeah, I know. Owen: And I just, you know, why he, I just absolutely couldn’t believe it when Paul told me he only got twenty-three years. Lee: Right. They wouldn’t even allow the murder to be talked about in court. They wouldn’t allow them to speak of it. Owen: Yeah, you see that’s what makes me think it was some plea bargaining stuff, you know, that if they could put him in jail for twenty-three years for on thing they weren’t gonna press something else and that certainly isn’t justice. Lee: No, it isn’t because they keep telling me that a murder is their priority but I don’t see it that way in this case. Owen: It doesn’t seem so. In relation to Lionel it doesn’t… Lee: No. No. Owen: Do you have other children Mrs. Cochran? Lee: Yes, I have two other boys and a daughter. Yes. I have a boy that’s sixteen and then I have a boy that’s thirty-four and a daughter that’s thirty-two. Owen: You have them spread out don’t you? Lee” Well the first three were close together because Derald, Jr. is thirty-four and Coralee is thirty-two. Mike would have been, was thirty one, this last Sunday (October 4, 1987) he’d have been thirty-one years old. Owen: Oh I, you certainly have had my feelings and sympathy and I wish there was something I could do to help you. Lee: Well, I’m going to try to, you know, I have a lawyer in Augusta and I’m still working on this and I’m gonna try some way. I’ve given them [the detectives] a lot of information. Richard Sargent has helped me with information. He’s taped Lionel Cormier while he was in fail here in Bangor and he told about the fire and there’s things he tells about it that you have to know that he’d have to be there to know them ... I can’t give up because I can’t believe that they could... Owen: Of course you can’t give up. Lee: That’s right. Well, Okay, I thank you for your time. Owen: It was nice to talk with you and I understand what you’re doing.