| 1984 |
| Richard Sargent’s 12/5/1984 interview after his arrest for arson/murder |
| Richard didn't live in the Bangor area. It was 7:40 am before he
arrived at his mother's home that evening. Only Pinkham was present
for Richard's interview.
Richard was read his constitutional rights and also agreed to speak to the
detectives without an attorney present. “Richard ... You know that both Sgt. Pinkham and I are law enforcement officers?” Richard said that he did and Shuman then asked Richard if he had been drinking and he said, “I’ve had a few beers ... you shocked me, sobered me up quick.” “Richard, you understand that you’ve been placed under arrest on the charges of murder and arson, you’re indicted by the grand jury here in Hancock County this morning. This murder and arson happened in February of 1981, involving Micheal Cochran, back in 1981. Do you know William Meyers or Roger Johnson or Bubbie Johnson?” “I don’t know them personally, never met either one personally, just heard of them.” “You remember that I came out to Auburn and talked with you back in, probably April [March 11] 1981, somewhere in there. And asked you where you were on that particular night that David Dupray’s camp caught on fire. Do you remember this?” Richard told Shuman that he was in Auburn with his girlfriend the night of the fire. He said he never lived in Winterport. His only reason for going there was because his mother lived there and that she had lived there for eight years. Shuman said, “About eight years. And in the course of this time, you’ve never run across Bubbie Johnson?” “Out of my league. Let’s just say I’m the peon.” “How about David Dupray?” “Dupray? I know Dupray.” “Were you ever at a party at [Johnson’s] house?” “Never socialized with him. Never, ever in my life have I ever met Bubbie Johnson or the other guy. I will take a (1)lie detector test on that.” “Well, that might be in the future, but for right now, I just want to know what you know. You’ve never been down [to] Roger Johnson’s place down there in Winterport?” “No.” “Lionel Cormier?” “Yeah. I know him.” “Did you know Lionel’s brother?” “Not that well.” “Do you know what his name is?” “Not right off my head.” “Paul Pollard. Was Paul Pollard living with Lionel right about this time, January?” “I think he was living with Percy. Percy, my brother, was staying at the camp. That night that he was arrested. We went through this before. He was arrested for dealing drugs or something. And Dupray was arrested that night. I wasn’t around there. “When did you find out Percy got arrested?” “I think the next day. My mother called me up.” “You didn’t come over and try to get Percy bailed out?” “I think I got my brother-in-law to bail him out.” “Did you know Micheal Cochran?” “No, I never met him. Percy was in custody that night that that place burnt.” “I know that. I know he was in jail at Penobscot County. He also made a phone call that night. “Who’d he call?” Cochran turned Percy in “We think it was you he called; told you that he got busted and that Cochran turned him in. ... And he wanted you to take care of Cochran.” “No, he didn’t ask me to do that, never.” Det. Shuman accuses Mike of making a hit on Charles Dolan “Percy and Cochran were going to make a hit on Charlie Dolan—know who Charlie Dolan is?” “Was Cochran and Cormier friendly?” “Not really. Cochran, I think he kind of felt intimidated by him.” “Charlie Dolan don’t ring a bell with you?,” Shuman said. “No.” “One of the biggest dealers in East Corinth right now, Lionel... Dickie, [illegible] guy that you been around. The name Charlie Dolan doesn’t ring a bell to you?” & “No.” “I think you(re) bullshitting me. ...You don’t know about Charlie Dolan losing his ear? Christ, that was all over every place. That was back just after the fire. Cochran was going to make a big score And your brother Percy and Cochran, they talked about making a big score. … You guys, you and Lionel came up the east coast ripping off drug dealers and you had David Dupray here and you had the guy ... I’m talking big time, I’m not talking little shit. You tie a guy up to a tree and he almost dies.” “That wasn’t my idea.” “Well, I realize that. I think that was Lionel’s idea, ’cause I think Lionel is good for things like that. Richard said, “... I didn’t set no fire.” “I didn’t say you set a fire.” “I didn’t kill anybody.” “The fire killed him.” “Well, I didn’t set no fire. ... (2) I’ll take a lie detector test.” “Well, that’s going to be down the road, depending on what happens here in the next few days, the next few weeks. But you were in town. And you were with the two guys that are locked up in there right now. They set the fire.” & “They might have, but I didn’t. I don’t even know, all I know is their names, you know. That’s all I know.” “It’s funny the people in the Penobscot county jail knew that there was going to be a body in the camp, ’cause Ralph [Pinkham] talked to a guy that was in the county jail.” “And I didn’t set no fire. You think I set the fire to get back at Dupray, I didn’t do it.” Cochran welshed on coke to Roger Johnson “No, I think the fire was set to get at Cochran, not at Dupray. Because Cochran welshed on coke to Bubbie Johnson. Cochran was going to snitch to the cops. And then when Percy got dumped.” Richard said, “Percy could have been at that camp when it went up, but he got busted that night. If he wouldn’t have got busted, he would have been in that camp.” Cochran taught a lesson – Cochran owed Johnson $20 grand "Then it wouldn’t have gone up. ’Cause the camp wasn’t burnt up [to] teach Dupray a lesson. ...Cochran was going to be taught a lesson,” ... Did you know that Cochran owed Bubbie Johnson about $20 grand. “ "... If I take a (3)lie detector test would you believe me? I will take one, if you want me to, so you’ll see I’m telling the truth.” Cochran taught a lesson – Cochran was going snitch on Percy “... Cochran was going to be taught a lesson. Cochran was going to snitch... on your brother—and blood’s a little thicker than water.” “I don’t know about that. Take that (4)lie detector test and you’ll see that I’m telling the truth. You can sit there and look at me, but I did not have nothing to do with it.” “And you didn’t hear about any rip-offs on Charlie Dolan?” “No.” “Did you know Percy was going to rip [Dupray] off that night that he got arrested?” “No.” “I think things got out of hand that night.” “What night?” “The night that Cochran was killed.” “I wasn’t there. Wasn’t even in that neck of the woods.” “Yeah, but it was your brother that got busted; and he thought he got set up by Cochran.” “I don’t know. I’m telling you everything I know. I didn’t have nothing to do with that.” “When you get inside, Dickie, you’ll be talking with Bubbie and Bill; I’m sure they’ve got a pretty good idea who turned them in. Mention the name Rideout, Pammy—you know Pammy Johnson?” Shuman said, “We think it was you he called—told you that he got busted and that Cochran turned him in. ... And he wanted you to take care of Cochran. There are witnesses that can put you in Bangor and Winterport and in the area that night” “I did not set that fire. I don’t even know those people. All I know is their names.” Cochran set Percy up “All you know is that Cochran set your brother up.” “Why would he set my brother up?” “So he could score the big score. Whatever that was.... While Percy was in jail, Cochran makes a score and gets out of town.” “The only thing that will clear me is the (5) lie detector test. That’s what it’ll take. I won’t admit to something I didn’t do. I don’t even know where that camp is.” “If you were with the two people who did the arson, even though you didn’t pour the gasoline or strike the match ...” “I’m telling you, I didn’t have nothing to do with this ... You don’t go kill someone ’cause you get set up for selling pot.” Cochran going to snitch on Roger Johnson “That’s not the only reason. He was going to go snitch on Bubbie Johnson, that’s something to get killed about.” "I never met Johnson in my life, not once, or the other guy.” “Have you pissed off anyone recently?” “No.” “That would want to set you up or anything?” " ...I will take a (6)lie detector test later.” “Okay. We’ll see what happens.” “Now, if I make this (7)lie detector test, will that clear me?” “Then it will be up to the, we don’t make those decisions, it will be between whoever you have for an attorney and the attorney general’s office “All you want to know is who set that fire.” “That’s right.” Ralph Pinkham spoke up and said, “That isn’t all we want to know.” “I didn’t have nothing to do with it. I did not even know of it happening until a day after or so. I was not involved in it whatsoever.” End of conversation |